Questions on House Rules Revisions: Mentor

Mentor is getting kicked in the jeans. Why?

Per Laws of the Wild: Revised, a loss on the Simple Test results in the Mentor requiring a favor be performed before the assistance is given. With the new house rule, the loss results in owing the Mentor a favor and getting nothing in return. While the benefits of success are still great, the effects of a loss are actually more detrimental than not asking in the first place. That seems unfair from the perspective of someone who spent XP on the Background and who doesn't win/tie 100% of chops.

Because Gifts out of T/B/A are going to be available in a limited scope via Mentor. More reward = More chance.

That should be a different deal than a standard use of the background. Otherwise, people who don't want to learn out of grouping Gifts are screwed for no reason. Maybe the chop changes to that format when trying to learn an out of grouping Gift?

Virgil Vikos wrote:That should be a different deal than a standard use of the background. Otherwise, people who don't want to learn out of grouping Gifts are screwed for no reason. Maybe the chop changes to that format when trying to learn an out of grouping Gift?

I second that suggestion. Some folks utilize their Mentors for knowledge and training in Lores, or rites that should be reasonably available. Hopefully that won't come with the same restrictions.

I was going to recommend using the limiters stipulated by the book. Not all Mentors know all things and sometimes they should say "I can't do that" (Storyteller discretion). After all, the Child of Gaia Mentor shouldn't really be able to swing a teacher for Gorge (Int. Red Talon Gift) under pretty much any circumstances. Also, huge and unusual requests can end up permanently reducing the value of the Mentor (Background rating drops) according to LotW:Rev -- if that rule is used, though, I'm hopeful the player gets to know that risk is there before any specific attempt is made.

I'll third it.

I just wanted to add that it states in the book that the spirits don't like it when you learn shit out of your T/B/A. Garou society doesn't like it either, they even went as far as to add a derangement for people who act outside of their auspice (Moonmad) because its such a taboo to do so.

Using a mentor to learn stuff out of T/B/A is naughty and I agree there should be some kind of penalty for it, but should it be a mechanical penalty or should the players who are Philidox and Ragabash come down on these people for not knowing their role, and then having them mechanically lose renown for demonstrating these talents in front of sept or rules minded packmates?

Again I don't think a house rule is necessary in this situation. This is something the players should be encouraged to work out among themselves. At Heartland Alliance I know this group of players will, they love those punishment rites!~ lol

You'll notice a bit of copy paste here

We're looking to be more conservative with our actions. This house rule we believe will assist with it. Moving from a 3/3 success rate when utilizing your Mentor Background to a 2/3 success rate when utilizing your Mentor Background helps faciliate this. We are taking suggestions however so please feel free to make them here or e-mail us at the ST addy we use. As much crazy as we are, we're also looking to make the experience fun in the long run.

Revision: This only goes into effect for stuff out of Tribe/Breed/Auspice. Send a recommendation if you see fit.

Mentor Background works per LotW:R
In addition to what is listed, a challenge must be thrown per request (RPS) for rites/gifts out of the standard Tribe/Breed/Auspice of your Character
-On a Win, the item is available and no task is required by the requesting PC
-On a Tie, the item is available and a task is required by the requesting PC
-On a Loss, the item is not available and a task is required by the requesting PC

Note - You may not ask multiple times for an item if you lose. You get one shot.
There is no retest.

I would propose the slight amendment:

On a tie, a minorish task is required and you will most likely get it
loss: a majorish task is required and there's still a good chance you might not get it.

It allows a little bit more for the STs to say no, even in the middle. But it also allows that if the person is asking for something highly reasonable (say tribal lore 3) that even if they lose the chop, it can still be given to them.