About that time again. (Moot)

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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Audra Radvilyte on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:19 pm

I echo what Misha said. It ends up being awkward and long. All the skill listing in the world doesn't really help with actual performance. If I were playing a char who was a violin master, the fact I listed performance 5 beforehand doesn't change the fact that I can barely play 'three blind mice' on a violin, and listening to me try would likely be physically painful.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Virgil Vikos on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:23 pm

Part of why I wanted to play a Galliard in the first place was to develop my ability to tell an exciting story. I also enjoy getting up there and doing the whole showmanship aspect of it. I was so downtrodden when we just skipped over the storytelling section last time I couldn't compel myself to type the actual story out for the boards. I do think there should be a section for Galliard stories on the board as I'd suggested before for stories that happen long before the next moot game or for those who aren't confident enough to try telling an engaging story. I'm not saying my stories are gonna be the best, but I at least want a chance to try at a Moot when everyone is gathered together to hear. Make the moot storytelling time for those people.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Misha on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:27 pm

But at that point you're compelling an audience to sit and listen. Developing your storytelling abilities is all well and good but when you have a group of people who are forced to sit and listen who would all rather be doing something else, it gets a bit unfair. It also doesn't help develop any skills cause the only feedback you're likely to get is "groan, we have to do this again?"
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Frost in His Hair on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:31 pm

I was Talesinger for several years. This is what I have to say:

Moots take ALOT of energy out of the player base. both for those trying to make it fun (which amounts to 1 out of every 5 Galliard players, because Galliard is just a Social Prime Ahroun with Bridge Walker and more social based gifts, right? And the occasional Theurges with how the flavor happens. The other Auspices have clearly defined roles and if people and it's based on if scandal/punishments etc need to happen or not. You can't just fabricate that stuff.)

I agree with everything that is said here, especially the parts on the story telling. It's G-D boring. Anya is right. No one here is a mastercraftsman, and frankly, after sitting through years of moots where it sounds like someone reading off their 8th grade creative writing assignment, I'd rather not. Even telling them sucks because no one honestly cares OOC. Even when I was standing on my head and pulling out all the stops as a Galliard in attempts to at least make it somewhat amusing, half the people were sitting OOC smoking and BSing about other things,

As for dates:

Moots are already decided IC. It happens every full moon. Done.

The problem is deciding OOC when the moot games happen. This is more easily done by THREE people (The STs) than 30 (the player base). Especially when those 3 know the flows of plots and such and everything that is going on in the works.

If it's up to us as players OOC to figure out when moots are, I would rather not have them at all in a live setting. Besides the tax on energy levels, it is also a financial burden for many as people have come to expect some sort of pot luck thing which some put more money or energy into than others. (Chrystal bakes like a madman and Kasey slaves over P-Salad, like a boss.) Don't get me wrong, I LOVE picnic style pot luck lunch things, it's just an unfair expectation to have.

With so many expectations put on Moots, they have begun to feel like a chore and an obligation.

I do not like when game feels like an obligation let alone when OOC aspects feel like an obligation.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Sundancer on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:36 pm

I will say that all of my best werewolf experiences have been at moot games... In fact some of those experiences have been the most fun I've ever had roleplaying or gaming in general. Some of my worst werewolf experiences have also been moot games... Moot can be incredibly fun or incredibly boring. Seems like a lot of people here have only had negative experiences. Take that for what it's worth.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Vanessa Carter on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:40 pm

Why even bother putting on the boards if it's a chore? Just say it happens every full moon and no one has to really bother with it.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Sundancer on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:47 pm

I'm saying that if one hasn't had at least one good moot experience, then one really hasn't seen everything Werewolf has to offer.


Last edited by Sundancer on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Taker on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:48 pm

All of this moot hate makes me sad. It's such a big part of the genre to gloss over it seems like a disservice. If people just want to do the tale singing on the boards that's their business, but personally I go to a larp to...larp. I'll sit their and listen to someone try to tell a tale whether they rock my socks or are boring. I do it because they are trying, they are portraying their character to the best of their abilities, and I want to support their art. Garou are a social society. Moots are the time when everything comes to a head. Issues get solved, challenges can be made, people can brag etc. Also a time for the PCs to celebrate, to see what it is they fight for. With out it I think a big chunk of the depth of the genre is lost.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Griffin Defoe on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:53 pm

I'm going to be frank, since the question was actually asked.

I'm with Anya on all of this. I also firmly agree with South, particularly in regards to scheduling these things.

But also, the game is live-action. Verbally sharing a story with other characters is woefully one-sided and, largely, devoid of action: One Galliard talking, a lot of bored chumps and chumpettes listening. In a lot of cases, the listeners already know the story pretty well. In LARP, Garou PCs are far more nosy than they ought to be, so they already got to hear the day-of account of what you're going to say at the moot.

Storytelling (as in the act of telling a story and not the role of the folks that run a White Wolf game) is hard f#%@ing work. And, maybe it's just me, but it seems to require some sort of natural aptitude as well. Some people got it, plenty don't. And forgive me, but most LARPers don't. There are a lot more music and theatrical festivals in this country than there are storytelling festivals, and I think that explains itself.

As a live-action game with so little time to tell our own characters' stories (all in all, it's far less than the 8-12 hours we're actually signed in for each month), I'm predisposed to use the at-game time to go and make a new story rather than sitting still and listening to one being recycled.

More than a little of this is very likely a "grumpy old gamer" thing for me. I've witnessed *a lot* of moots. I used to be a little mystified by the Opening Howl, Calling the Winds, the selection of the Wyrmfoe, and all the steps in between. Now, more than ever, most of the steps feel like a chore. We're creative folks, most of us, so we should be able to come up with some fine ideas to liven up these regular high points for our PCs, but I hold back in such efforts because I'm playing an Ahroun who has little to no bearing on how lively a moot gets to be.

Sometimes little things help, though. While in West Virginia last year for a Martinsburg game, it was amazing to me how much more engaging the moot was with a bonfire, nighttime hours, and a single drum being beat in and out of character.

Anyway, there's my pocket full of change. I'm sorry my glass is half empty, but I know I'm not just part of a small minority in these feelings. You know that point of the moot when everyone gets up to get more food and drink? Yep. That's the one.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Vanessa Carter on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:01 pm

So why not do that? At vega there's a barrel and lots of wood for a fire. There are nights at Vega that are free considering the only night games there now are Carpe and CBN.

There are things people can do to make moot more interesting, just depends on the effort players are willing to put it.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Virgil Vikos on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:01 pm

Well apparently there's no reason to try, because we're just forcing people to sit through torture. I think this is a problem on the part of the jadedness that comes with playing these games so long. I think new players should get the moot experience. And if they come in with a Galliard and want to tell their first story? I'm not going to expect Shakespeare, but i'll be courteous and respectful and listen and give them a shot. We should all be putting more effort into making this enjoyable.

And while HA is fairly heavy with board characters, not everyone wants to play on the boards, or even make it a point to check them. Some of us are just interested in live-action roleplaying. Now, I personally enjoy both, but I don't think it's fair to kick those who want to make an effort to the curb.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Sundancer on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:02 pm

I have to say that in every case where moot has been exceptional there were major efforts put forth towards staging and setting. Bonfires, drums, live music, puppet shows, singing, dancing, "decent" howling, (being able to howl at full volume can do more than you'd think) I've seen it all at moot games. Natural settings in general help. I guess I've been to several extremely good moots, and they've given me the wherewithal to sit through the more boring ones hoping for the best.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Erato Castellanos on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:05 pm

^ Finely said, Truman. Also, the best story I've ever seen told was by Burton when he was playing Firebringer. He used Shadows By Firelight the way a Galliard is meant to use it. He had South, Ernest and one other come up, and we WATCHED them play out the story. That was a Talesinging I'll always remember. I enjoyed that.

I'd love to see a Moot played out the way it is in genre. At night, beneath the moon. Bonfires, outdoor settings, the works. But, this is a difficult thing to accomplish. And usually, pretty damn costly. As if the food isn't costly as is. But, there are ways to make it more fun. It's just a bit work intensive, in it's way.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by HST Justin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:05 pm

The experiences that people have had at moot, both OOC and IC, are all caused by players. Want a better moot? Help us help you help us all by throwing out some ideas of things we can to to clean up the experience or to make it more manageable. I'm cool handwaving monthly moots because the book says they happen. The seasonal rites, however? it's a chance to do something interesting.

It's a little disappointing to hear that people just want to do away with it because it's not action-packed enough for them. Food a problem? Stop bringing food OOC. Boredom during stories a problem? Make the Talesinger deal with it IC by only letting awesome stories be told that were communicated in advance.

If you get rid of moot, you get rid of nearly the entirety of what two auspices are supposed to do. I no like.

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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Vanessa Carter on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:18 pm

^ Tru fax
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Griffin Defoe on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:23 pm

HST Justin wrote:The experiences that people have had at moot, both OOC and IC, are all caused by players. Want a better moot? Help us help you help us all by throwing out some ideas of things we can to to clean up the experience or to make it more manageable. I'm cool handwaving monthly moots because the book says they happen. The seasonal rites, however? it's a chance to do something interesting.

It's a little disappointing to hear that people just want to do away with it because it's not action-packed enough for them. Food a problem? Stop bringing food OOC. Boredom during stories a problem? Make the Talesinger deal with it IC by only letting awesome stories be told that were communicated in advance.

If you get rid of moot, you get rid of nearly the entirety of what two auspices are supposed to do. I no like.

I disagree that the full burden falls on players. STs can do their part to encourage good behavior. Again, there's less of them than there are players. They have a better chance of soliciting ideas, taking polls, weaving moot activity into existing plots and themes. Caern totems are the purview of the STs -- Maybe there's something special they want for or during their monthly tithe-party? While it's heavily on the players to make their game enjoyable, the STs are supposed to be a part of the experience.

Which Auspices have nothing to do without moots? This is mostly about Galliards, right? I think part of the problem is putting one verbal story after another after another. Maybe we need more frequent but shorter storytimes, unfettered by the construct of the moot. I'm not saying do away with moots -- they are an expected part of Garou life -- but more saying that I feel very hard-pressed to get excited about them. Despite my malaise, I'll support those who are enthusiastic. A newer player's zeal can make moots more palatable. I've seen that more than once.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Frost in His Hair on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:28 pm

Galliards should be doing their job outside of moots.

Again, msot people playing Galliards want to play an Ahroun with social traits, not a tale weaver.

I played the tale weaver Galliard. I CONSTANTLY told little stories and vignettes while RPing on normal days. Everything shouldn't be stored up and reserved for 4 hours every 3 months.

You can tell stories as a Galliard outside of a moot.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by HST Justin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:31 pm

Ragabash essentially have no purpose outside of calling scandal at moots and being the fool in Garou culture. And, you know, heckling rites.

If you want moot to be a plot highlight, that's something that can be arranged. But I've heard plenty from the other side of that street where STs who throw things in the middle of moots tend to disrupt them and make it feel interrupted rather than added-to.

It is on the STs to be part of the experience of making a player's game fun. But when it comes to something almost purely IC like the moot, it's less clear. You're not forming a pack without an ST getting involved at some point, or a rank. But moot? STs can be a help, but we're not ultimately IC. You guys are. You tell us what you need.

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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Griffin Defoe on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:35 pm

You're wrong, South. That is not the reason most, if any at all, players choose Galliard for their Auspice. It's *not* cool for you to act like you're the one guy that did it for the right reason. Mad
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Sundancer on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:38 pm

^agreed
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Graciela on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:42 pm

^Seconded.

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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by HST Justin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:45 pm

When you guys are busting the ^this, could you clarify which 'this' you're after?

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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Graciela on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:52 pm

I would say follow the arrow. But, as mine is top of page, I'll clarify. Tom agreed with Truman, I seconded.

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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Audra Radvilyte on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm

Blah. How far are people willing to travel for a moot game? 30-60min? Willing to pay slightly more (possibly, depending on where you go) Go to a state or city park. Rent a shelter. You can have a fire then, atmosphere, freedom to howl, playgrounds nearby if people want to bring family. It's easily possible.

Galliards, keep your stories short. Write the extended story out ahead of time, post it if you want then or wait til after, but keep the actual story <5 minutes. Practice it beforehand. This goes triple if you plan to sing.

Theurges, bring candles or glow sticks or incense or something for the calling of the wyld. Have your own descriptions of the 5 corners. Practice it before hand, and keep it shorter. MotR - One to two word recitation of the litany, people know what it is, you're trying to cue the ragabash.

Ragabash, have your heckles prepared ahead of time. practice them. Keep them reasonably short.

OOCly, prior to the moot, arrange who is going to talk at the cracking of the bone. again, practice what you're going to say.

Revel: does not have to be combat. "At this time, the primal passions of the Garou approach their climax and the Wyrm Foe is the only measure of control present. She calls for the mock battles, ritual hunts, displays of strength and wild and reckless dances that vary in popularity from sept to sept." As a Kinfolk player, I would love to incorporate the other aspects of the revel. Several source materials have said that the revel is actually when the kin are invited in and party with the garou. If you're going to do a hunt, narrate it instead of chopping it. Do something different at the end. Hell, if where you are allows alcohol, everyone get drunk and party that way.

A moot, more than most larp things, is a play and everyone needs to have practiced their part and it needs to be planned and blocked.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

Post by Makes-Insides-Outside on Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:02 pm

So.. I'm down with putting in some prep work for the next moot. LARP just like anything is you get out of it what you put into it. Fire?? Ill get with vici and see if it can be done. City might have an ordinance.. Howling? Ill do it. Im a larper I gave up trying to be cool many years ago. Event-stuffed game?? I think if we spend a little extra time building others up at moot, instead of focusing on oneself that will go a long way.

I hear everything Mr.Banco is saying and my jaded old inner-gamer is agreeing with him. But I love this game and I am willing to ignore my inner-grump and try and make this awesome. Maybe a venue change could shake things up a bit. Huntington beach is open til 11pm and is nearly dead now that its fall.

I'm also willing to bring 4-5 pizzas to help with cost.

So i'm going to make this moot about elevating others and Maybe adding a facet or two to the ceremony. Still would like to wait til after october though.
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Re: About that time again. (Moot)

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